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Myself in Public

Men in Skirts and Feminism

On the whole Feminism has changed society and for the better for women with rights, individuality and respect accepting certain quarters of men still dwell on the past. Society and majority of men therein have embraced better attitudes, perhaps some by law and encouragement but many in a modern society are accepting, reflective and do so naturally. Sadly, a certain quarter of women under Feminism take their anti men attitudes too far and actually make themselves no different to the minority similar minded men towards women. Therefore, why should I, and men like me, listen to the women who criticise us and under Feminism? Freedom of choice, individuality, expression with regards clothing.

I decided to add a page about men in skirts and Feminism in early September 2013 after I came across blogs about Feminism and clothing expectations of genders. I appreciated their approach and none that I read undermined Feminism, noted its purpose but questioned the way it was implemented and its approach generally within society. A comment from a reader I thought summed Feminism up perfectly from my point of view:

 

"...which makes me think that feminism, though it has provided plenty of oppurtunites and choices for all women, is being taken to an extreme now, blaming men for all the evils in life, and yet trying to become like men at the same time..."

 

This was stated by  Jenny in a comment to a blog on 29th August 2013 entitled 'Another Reason Why Women Need to Dress Like Ladies" and did appear on the blog site www.childrenareablessing.org but the article since taken down. It was comment ref #comment-2419. I posted a comment on 6th September 2013.

These are third party links at the time of creating this page in early September 2013. I have not dabbled in this area since unlike for articles specifically on men in skirts generally.

Feminism Will no Longer be Needed When 9th May 2013 - posted a comment 1st June 2013.

Elegant Idiosyncrasy 29th August 2013. - Article and domain has since been taken down.

Homophobia and Misogyny - Are You Man Enough? 30th August 2013 - posted comment 6th September 2013

What is Feminine About Feminism 10th September 2013 - posted a comment 10th September 2013 and via another comment led me to the next blog I mention on the next line down.

The Feminist Stay at Home Mom 30th January 2013 - I came across this blog on 10th September, see line above. Although it is about its subject title it does talk about how Feminism for her looks down on 'stay at home Moms'.

Do we Ridicule Men in Skirts Because we see Women as Inferior 10th September 2013 - posted comment 18th September 2013 - Article and domain maninaskirt.wordpress.com since taken down.

Why is it I Can Wear Pants But he Can't Borrow my Skirt? 11th September 2013 - posted comment 19th September 2013

Men Who Wear Skirts and Dresses (and Pantyhose) 11th September 2013 - posted comment 20th September 2013

This link about Roger Federer being banned from wearing orange soled trainers at Wimbledon is digressing from men in skirts but it is another Feminist approach towards male clothing. As the article and comments say women were not mentioned in the ban who had coloured soles or as one person said coloured shorts showing with their dresses on! - 26th June 2013

 

My comment on the blog Homophobia and Misogyny generated a reply from the Blog writer, something that I note she does to all comments but on the 7th September 2013 my comment had a very interesting reply from 'The Arbourist'. These are at the end under the heading Addendum or click here to go direct to it.

This comment really started me thinking about creating a page on my web site on men in skirts and Feminism as I still had part of "Jenny's" comment ringing in my ear - see the top of this page. After creating this page I noted on the 21st September 2013 the Arbourist submitted another reply to me, included three links, one to her site, saying I should read and perhaps I would then get a better understanding of Feminism and why it speaks as it does. I do understand. Feminism was created due to inequality and disrespect in the pursuit of equality and respect. Where I differ from some in the hard line Feminism is that equality and respect has to be mutual, otherwise you do not have either. We are left with either Patriarchy or Matriarchy and neither offer the understanding of real Feminism. For some women to restrict others freedom of choice including clothing as well as behaving, acting and speaking like some men, makes them no different to those Feminismwas created to challenge. I do see Feminism now (2013) as an aim to simply become the dominators itself, like the males of yesteryear, not equality as it set out as. For equality to succeed you must live side by side. This is achieved by acknowledging each other and having no gender boundaries or expectations. I do believe that Feminism has achieved its aim generally, not fully, but society of the past, and still does with regards expectations, behaviour, appearance etc of men, had strict expectations, behaviour and appearance of both genders. Technically denying both genders of true individuality and freedom within the confines of a society. Now that we have brought women technically on a par, a term or label remember society can only operate by such, should be for equality of both genders. There is one but declined by many and it is Egalitarian - equality for all. Pursuing this as the one aim will stop the campaigns of men who now see discrimination of themselves due to loss of rights, expectations due to the increase of womens and also stop the gender competition when one feels the other is recognised more over the other. Women are allowed to do anything, within the laws of society, under Feminism. Have full discussions thereof, reasons for support and exemption of, yet men who should have similar are either ignored or expected to continue as it was for them within society of the past and generally portrayed you do not have problems or issues. We are all humans, all have similar feelings, emotions, all suffer the same if neglected. Sexual assault of all types, primarily at women but a lot of men too, domestic violence of which 1 in 6 are men, homelessness 9 in 10 are men. We have female girl gangs, female murders, females having under age sex, bad behaviour due to drink, occasionally female paedophiles, etc. Quite often with reasons to justify such behaviour. Lets not label a gender in preference to the other. Inclusion and inclusive is the only route to success and not segregation. Then we are dealing with human intelligence a point I refer to on several occasions on this site. Sadly too many can only dwell on the past and changes implemented along the same mentality of past protocol but on a different media.

Lets get back to clothing under Feminism, the main aspect of this page. Change has taken place on all aspects of human life with it's evolution to where we are now, especially within clothing for both genders, history is the proof. I'm not against sensible and constructive change, or change that doesn't harm, but since the 1970's under Feminism,clothing change for a wide and complete freedom is only for the female gender, the male gender remains very similar to that since the early 1800's.

Feminism protects change for women regardless and without question but this shield for women now lets many women suppress others by attitude, language and behaviour. Twitter is full of it and I only look at "man in a skirt", "men in skirts" and occasionally "everydaysexism".

Feminism has exempted women who have ditched their traditional clothing dress code in preference for trousers and other traditional male style clothing from being referred to as Transvestite or 'Tranny' as many on the internet prefer. A man who deviates from societies traditional clothing expectations is not exempt from this term by many, especially women who pass comment on the internet - never to me directly. Transvestite definition: "A person (note person is not gender specific) who seeks sexual pleasure from wearing clothes that are normally associated with the opposite sex" (again not gender specific). Also see my Descriptions Used page.

Under Feminism it is now said it is normal for a woman to wear trousers and male style clothing so, under Feminism, a man in a skirt cannot be a cross dresser or a Transvestite, but the man in trousers is!

Like Feminism I believe in freedom of choice, equality and rights, provided it does no harm to the 'system' needed for a civilised society, but it applies to all, certainly not one gender.

Feminism became a movement for women trapped within a society expectation and behaviour and yes by a society dominated by men. To achieve this goal, equality, freedom and rights applies to all, men and women it cannot exist or succeed otherwise.

Feminism these days has become a "pitched battle" of men -v- woman or to some, woman -v- men not just in life generally but within clothing and fashion.

Feminism isn't about being 'a man' it's being you, yourself, the individual, where you have the option to partake in all aspects of life not those assigned to you. Having these 'pitched battles' only makes the other side more resolved in their beliefs and ethos. Equality, freedom and rights only succeeds when all are involved and society talks as "people", not this is a mans job womans job, mans clothes womans clothes , mans activity womens activity, etc. It is a human failing throughout history and in all aspects of life, clothing included, for one particular group to be dominant, forceful and intolerant and no doubt will be in the future. Perhaps that is why I liked the film Cloud Atlas (2013) with its deep meaning message it portrayed in each of its 6 stories from past, present and future.

Feminism, in its pursuit of its worthy cause has become a 'bully' towards others just like any other group of society when they have a belief or desire but nobody else or others views matter. We all know the male dominance of the past is another example, the church of all religions is another, world and home politics and even work places are other examples to name but some but it is also firmly within the basic parts of life like clothing.

I wasn't alone with this thinking. ThinkingBannedThoughts, the blog writer, has posted one or two blogs in this area and I received this reply from the blog writer as follows: 

Jeremy, you won your very own post with this reply. While I don’t think I address all of your concerns, I thought you’d be happy to know that your post here got me off my arse to finally post something that’s been tickling my brain cells for a few months now. It’s something that I think a lot of women/feminists struggle with, on one hand we’re told we’re living in a post-feminist world, on the other hand we see that people are still not equal and many of us aren’t sure where to go from there.


My husband and I talk about it a lot and we agree, the next stage in feminism is freeing men from their gender box. I don’t think we can move forward as a society until the feminine is as valued as the masculine, whether it’s being displayed by men or women. That’s true equality. Anyway, here you go – http://thinkbannedthoughts.wordpress.com/2013/09/10/what-is-feminine-about-feminism/ I’d love your thoughts on it.

I am not and never have been against Feminism. I am a big believer in equality for all. Hopefully the contents of this site demonstrate this but for many a year I have felt aggrieved, discriminated, by those who push for their rights but deny others theirs and this with regards Feminism I start to query and yes perhaps challenge.

In clothing expectations, women did encounter set specific expectations from others and society and many other parts of life by, influence, domination, group pressure etc, all of which are traits of human nature. Once this is established and a "precedence" is set it is hard to break or change or even "be accepted" if you are different in the eyes of the larger groups who are different themselves yet the power that group wields makes them 'normal' and others 'weird, odd, queer, perv' etc.

Women have thought hard to get over this obstacle, so why should Feminism with its image for the modern woman, allow some women to criticise men who themselves in this modern era break society expectations and traditions laid before them. It is simply no different for the women before Feminism of the 1970's. History shows women could only wear skirts/dresses all the time, even in the early 1900's, prisonable offence if they wore trousers. How did the change start before Feminism of the 1970's made it impossible to pass a negative comment let alone stop women wearing trousers or what has been, still is for men, traditional male style clothing.

I came across this blog You Don't Have to be Female to be Feminine 1st August 2013 - I posted a comment 9th August 2013. This article and domain has since been taken down. The blog writer of this Blog is enduring no more, for wearing what society deem as womens wear, than women before Feminism of the 1970's. Feminism has allowed women the change in a clothing aspect of life, without question or ridicule yet he and others like him get questioned and ridiculed. ThinkingBannedThoughts comment to me - 2 paragraphs above - in particular lines 4 and 5 are relevant to what this blog writer encounters.

There is more to Feminism than clothing I acknowledge but this site is about men in skirts and why it is and should be acceptable within society bearing in mind the complete freedom Feminism has brought for women within society, one aspect being the open and unhindered change of fashion.

With men in skirts, even in this community, expectations, beliefs and acceptance varies from the true Transgender, through too ordinary Heterosexual man who wants to wear a skirt with male clothing on the top half of his body or clothing generally from the female wardrobe but as a man. It varies from those who believe it should only be a kilt - Scotland, or only Utilitikilt, origin USA.

Certain boundaries of men are breaking, like hair styles, jewellery and minor areas like fragrances not after shave and make up but this is never an issue, certainly not from my experience. Now look at women and compare them with the women of the late 1980's and then compare the 1980's women with pre 1970's and be perfectly honest with yourself in this comparison. Achieved without question or ridicule under Feminism.

In all aspects of her life, personal choices etc have dramatically changed to a point everything and anything is now possible for a woman - some will disagree. As this site is about men in skirts and therefore personal appearance lets concentrate on this area only. Under Feminism many a womans appearance at first glance these days is very very similar to men from hair styles to footwear, clothing, watches etc.

Many women will not use the word blouse, but shirt and other terminology changes and only since Feminism was well established. Many women will not wear a skirt at all. Sizes are now coming more popular as S, M, L, EL, the traditional notation for men not 8, 10, 14 etc the traditional notation for women.

I have no problem with change within society, it has happened throughout human history but I do have an issue when it is gender biased, "I can have, you cannot" attitude, an issue or cause that Feminism was created to stop.

Under Feminism toys targeted towards girls only are challenged, toys should be open to all girls. I agree but Feminism stops at this point, as society does not agree with a boy having access to all toys, only boy toys. Society and its labels!

To stop divides between gender which results in competition, 'battles', and discriminative descriptions Feminism must stick by its principles of equality, freedom of choice but for all. Highlighting publicly womens clothing fashions, even extreme examples is expected and allowed through Feminism, but anything such like for men is paraded like a 'freak show'.

With the existence of Feminism and what it really stands for, I am at a loss to understand why within the female gender there is so much reaction about a man in a skirt. As I say elsewhere on this site, since early 2011 I go out and about my life skirted in public, 24/7 unless the situation makes trousers more suitable - no different to women under Feminism and since the early 1990's who by then embraced trousers full time for the vast majority.

A small percentage of women out in public will make a giggle, point fingers and make it known they are talking about me, never direct to my face though. An example that often happens is a group of 2 or more will be in conversation, you are aware of the 'noise' then suddenly quiet. You look and they are all staring at you. Then the mobiles come out and rapid finger movement takes place, this example is always done by women. Another example is every so often a woman will over react and the body language and gesture is like, shock horror, that they have seen a man in a skirt, yet each time she will be embracing her freedom of choice. Of this small percentage a good 99% are women and always these 99% women are the women and due to Feminism, not traditional in any sense and bare no resemblance to a tradition for women for which they hold men too.

On blogs, comments to blogs and especially Twitter under 'man in a skirt' or 'Men in Skirts', comments are mostly from women but it is the women who will be the most vocal, direct, bad language, etc far more than the men and from my experience of life unchallengeable under Feminism as you are restricting their freedom of speech, rights equality etc but you question them and once again, as a man you face Feminism, their rights etc.

I'm not saying men do not comment they do, but far less than women and out in public from my experience they give you a brief look of what could be disdain, perplex or perhaps even 'I wish I was brave to do that'! The men then move on, but again they are a small percentage and much smaller than the percentage of women.

Some say men are insecure with themselves if they deviate from societies expectations. Actually I'm very secure with myself if I'm allowed to be myself and not dictated to by others. Under Feminism with its approach to achieving its cause I start to question if some modern women are actually secure with themselves. They criticise men for almost anything yet aspire to be men. Women wear trousers and traditional male style clothes and many becoming hard and aggressive in appearance but they, unlike a man in clothing labelled womens wear, are never queried or criticised due to Feminism.

 

Addendum

 

Return to point of this page that provided access direct to here.

 

My comment on the blog Homophobia and Misogyny, the reply from the Blog writer, and from 'The Arbourist'. As mentioned above

My comment was:

 

A very good blog. I’m all for no gender bias, equality for all and practice it as much as society allows. I’m a man in a skirt for many a year and in public since 2011. Society is obsessed with its labels and I’m afraid Feminism is to. Feminism was needed to give women their rights etc within society but its pendulum has swung a bit to far over. On the whole societies intelligence is not intelligent enough to prevent homophobia and misogyny and even misandry. Repeated history, even current affairs is proof.

 

The reply from the blog write was: 

 

Jeremy – I agree that we’re all too label focused. It’s a hard trap to break free of though. On one hand I’d love to live in a world where we were all just people. But that world doesn’t exist just yet, and until it does labels are useful to identify the people/groups being persecuted so that we can work to stop the persecution. Of course, by doing so, we reinforce the labels. It’s a mobius strip. And you’re also right – human intelligence isn’t enough, but I haven’t given up on human compassion just yet…

 

The reply from The Arbourist was: 

 

@Jeremy H.

Feminism was needed to give women their rights etc within society but its pendulum has swung a bit to far over.

Please explain to me about this too far phenomena you speak of. Is our culture not quite rapey enough for you? Or was it the wage gap that shrinking a hair too much for you? I’m really confused here because it would seem like the battle to establish women as autonomous human beings is not even *close* to being over.

So tell me Jeremy, in all of your authority and wisdom, about Feminism going “too far” and how feminists should properly comport themselves to fit into your prescriptions.

On the whole societies intelligence is not intelligent enough to prevent homophobia and misogyny and even misandry.

IQ is not the problem. Being smart is not an antidote to doing stupid things and acting horribly – see every war we’ve ever been in. It is people who benefit and wilfully maintain the status quo which happens to be the problem.

 

So I responded to the request as follows:

 

The Arbourist. Your response says it all to me. Ones perceptions on life differs depending upon ones expectations and experiences.

If you knew me you would realise that your response is no different that some men have towards women for which you feel strongly about. You appear very anti man and perhaps for a good reason but please note the first two sentences of my comment.

Feminism has gone too far in my view and from my life experience simply because women, those who want to, can behave just like men in language, attitude, verbal abuse, behaviour etc and a man has no recourse because of societies expectations, beliefs and labeling – be a man take it on the chin. If a man says anything a woman doesn’t want to hear he has a problem. A woman can flirt with a man and its OK until at times he responds (not talking about rape or abuse here) then quite often its not for the woman. If a man flirts then he is critisied under Feminism. If a man deviates from societies expectations in any way he is odd, queer, etc – clothing is just one area – yet Feminism prevents any such thoughts about women. Eg always a big issue about two men living together or appearing feminine in appearance but rarely mentioned about two women living together or looking very masculine as under Feminism a woman cannot be criticised and she has her individual freedom and rights.

Because I choose to wear skirts or women’s clothing per society label I too encounter society reaction. Nothing direct but giggles and body language is a good 90% from women. As I feel I have a cause within societies attitude and expectations towards me I do research and comments on blogs or Twitter about men in skirts are from both gender but mostly from women and it will be those women that are the most vocal in negativity with tone and language. If a man reacted the same towards a woman he would be shouted down. Why? Under Feminism, what is allowed towards men is considered acceptable but not towards a woman.

Feminism was created because of an unfair world towards women. Feminism was here when I was a young pre-school age & I am a modern open hearted, kind and understanding man and have been with my wife for some 25 years and helped her through many troubles life has brought to her as she has too me. We have both helped either gender in our lives who needed help but respected us.

Here in the UK, under Feminism since the 1970′s, the Scout movement for boys was made to be open to girls, yet the Girl Guide movement still exists and female only. Institutions like the Women’s Institute is female only yet male institutions have had to be opened up to all. In the UK we still have a few girl only schools but I am not aware of any boy only schools. Clothing is another area of discrimination towards men under Feminism which women have complete freedom with and expect/demand no negative recall to. It is similar to what some women campaign for under Feminism eg job positions. With regards that, here in the UK many women now hold top positions but I haven’t noticed a dramatic change to aggressive business attitude and behaviours. Under Feminism the world for women (excluding rape and domestic abuse) has opened up completely yet society on the whole still holds a man to his traditional expectations and will on many occasions be criticised for being so or for those men who try to break the mould for themselves.

Feminism is all about equality, no gender bias, freedom and rights of others etc and that can only be accomplished if it is applied to both genders in equal proportion and I’m afraid it isn’t by some women who are hell bent on being as restrictive on men as those men of yester year were towards women and some still today. I was brought up on many sound and equal principles one of which is two wrongs do not make a right.

My rights and opportunities are restricted even though I am a man because I lack connection, power, influence not being in the right “clan” but then if I had that opportunity I would walk away as it is not me, my personality and I struggle within such environments. Some men in this modern era still are intolerant of women and aggressive with it but we all are not, certainly not in my personal and social life. I have encountered many women intolerant of men as well. In our local area many women are the dominant in their relationship and some are quite capable of standing up for themselves with the aid of “violence” if they so wished.

You may have had a bad experience or like me know of and hear about some women who have had a bad experience within our own life experiences in the public domain. I personally within a work environment have experienced women who are manipulative, power hungry and dominant when they are in the larger number. Because of that I work self employed for myself but I do not label all women as such and know and associate myself socially with women as well as men.

I don’t have the problem you indicate that I have. I do not agree with rapists and domestic behaviour and strongly object to your inference about me especially your sarcastic comments and about my world not being rapey enough. I have come across in my public life experience women who have had the affairs or broken the marriage due to their behaviour. I have know some men in my public life experience who have been abused by the woman. Granted men hold the lions share in society and here in the UK violence towards males from females rarely hits headlines but statistics show that domestic violence towards men including murder is approx 20% of that too women.

I have to agree with the comment made by a woman on another blog site ” …which makes me think that feminism, though it has provided plenty of opportunities and choices for all women, is being taken to an extreme now, blaming men for all the evils in life, and yet trying to become like men at the same time…”

We may not agree but life is a battle for all and at times due to our respective personalities and experiences – unfortunately.

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