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My Thoughts: Misogyny / Misandry

Misogyny and Misandry. My thoughts on TRUE GENDER EQUALITY

 

This page is long but it does portray my genuine thoughts and why I think society is handling this gender battle incorrectly. 

I have found some blog writers on this subject do not post comments made by those that do not fully agree with their beliefs or even if they put up a neutral comment. Twitter is far to short and geared for short opinions only and therefore so often the wrong end of the tweeters meaning is mis-read, by sender and receiver. I do note in real life and on social media quite a few men and women do speak for each other, for true gender equality, but I do note many women on Twitter and Blogs are just as much speakers of misandry as some men are misogynists. Two wrongs do not make a right and this is not an effective way to deal with this situation. I advocate true gender equality but also point out mens rights and try to advocate that both genders suffer. Women more in some aspects, men in others, acknowledging that some men still have 'a problem' but womens behaviour in certain quarters are just as bad. When I have tried to add balanced facts I get clearly 'shot at' by one side rhetoric.

I came across this article written on 23rd April 2015 - 9 Ways We Can Improve Body Image for Men Too. Although the 9 observations were related to Men and Body Image, the article, written by a woman, also mentions that gender separation and the creation of "us" and "them" is counter productive. The essecence of the article away from mens body image echos my beliefs of true gender equality with regards respecting each genders preferences, problems, issues and working together. I thought it was a good read and some comments agreed too. Some generated the usual gender bashing remarks. I put this comment on:

Very interesting article. I have always advocated that both genders should work together, respect each others problems, issues etc. Pitting against each other is counter productive and exacerbates us -v- them even more. Having said that it is human nature to compete, dominate etc and I see little evidence of change on the whole, yes by some but not the majority. Both genders are as bad as each other in this area.

Although the article lists and is about the 9 points of body image for men, it also makes an observation about the genders.

I still stand by gender equality for all, no labeling or stereotyping but accepting both genders have differing abilities that if used and acknowledge properly will and do compliment each other. Thankfully the people within my personal and social life have this philosophy as well.

Can I add point 10. Respecting each other should be on all aspects of life and not to the preclusion of one gender only when it suits an individual, group or society be it male or female.

 

Likewise with this article Man Shaming and Victim Blaming: The A-Z of Male Suicide in the UK. It is an interesting article and I do not disagree with it but it only covers and specifcally talks about the denial of access by men to their children. The title implies that it covers the whole spectrum of causes to male suicide. I posted a very general comment but now regret it. Not for what I said but for what followed. Many replies between myself and the author but she seemed to only want to focus on the denial of access by men to their children, structural barriers of which she said I had none. In my view she became obsessed with my skirt wearing which only came up when I was being facetious when I said "This didn't just include my skirt wearing, oh sorry, society label towards men I should say womens clothes." in my first comment which was about socities attitudes and labels towards men generally yet dropped for women. My first comment also disagreed with her perception of the CEO of TheCalmZone interpretation towards men. My replies, to me, were very general on the subject and tried to encompass male suicide generally and other causes. I did imply that other causes were more serious and greater than mens denial of child access, gave an example of one cause and suggested that men do need to move with the times and create a better image for themselves in a society that has some sections of it that wants to portray all men in a bad light and these sections of society are making good progress with their beliefs. Trying to find percentages of causes of male suicide as an outsider is difficult so it is easy for a particular cause to become the sole focus especially if you feel pationate about that particular cause. Recently I came across an official Government Report giving advice to nurses within the NHS and it stated 34% of male suicides are within the LGBT and that is why I am happy to quote that statistic as a another example of a cause. 34% to me is a large proportion. The replies degenerated between us and I walked away realising she misunderstood my wide coverage replies and her obsession of this denial of men and their children was the only blinkered vision for discussion. I was also told that men in skirts are acceptable to those who want to control masculinity and change it forever. I had mentioned throughout my second reply that my skirts was not part of my thoughts on this subject. When subsequent male followers joined in it was obvious there was only one topic.

Misogoyny for women is the same as misandry for men. It's a bit like terrorist or freedom fighter. Too the terrorist they are fighting for their freedom to those who are on the receiving end they are simply terrorists. It is stalemate, catch 22 etc until both sides of any situation start to respect each others beliefs, ways and ethos and live side by side. From experience this sadly is far to much for human intelligence to cope with, for the many that is. The majority of humans have a single mind approach - I'm right, you're wrong and is in both men and women including aggression. Too many in this world believe that aggression, picking upon some one for no reason, laughing and ridicule, and the attitude of "I'm right, your wrong" is a sign of strength, to emulate this stereotypical image of being macho in appearance and behaviour. Yes, it does affect both men and women in many aspects of life.

I do not doubt that some women these days still endure misogyny and other such issues. However, many modern women in the latter years are now just as bad or as equal to these minority of non-modern men who practice misogyny as well as language, behaviour and attitude. The Suffragette movement of early 1900's was when women pushed for equality, to have work/career opportunities, to be able to drive, vote etc  and rightly so, but Feminism is the modern day term, and has been very prominant since the early 1970's. Feminism of today, (2000's) or what some term the second stage of Feminism is in my view making these women become and behave just like the dominant males of yester year of which do not get me wrong there are still some around. The majority of modern men who embraces equality, freedom for all especially women, were not around in that era, certainly pre 1960's so why should those who are not be blamed and labelled as such. Why should we be all labelled just because some men do not believe. It's a poor response for these Feminists, and to me proves they have no real reasons going beyond the drive for equality when they say, "perhaps not but all women are harrassed". In the real world I know and meet many women who do not think like this.

The suffragette movement is always cited as the beginning of womens rights, when the era of suppression of women ended. I'm not arguing against this point but in that same era the majority of men were also suppressed. The majority of men also had society labels and stereotype image to uphold, to do specific tasks, jobs etc within society whether they wanted too or not. Many women who formed the Suffragette movement also hen pecked and persuaded young men to go to war in World War One when many men did not believe in it and would prefer not to go on the front line. These same Suffragettes, like all women then were exempt from all wars and conflicts and if volunteered kept from the front line, gave these men a white feather as a sign of cowardice. You did not see or hear these same women claiming for equality and have their lives put on the front line yet it was expected that all men will lay down their lives in the interest of the country for conflicts always caused by religion and politicians.

Women could not vote in the early 1900's and the Suffragette movement included this. The majority of men in the early 1900's could not vote either. You had to be a substantial land owner to be able to vote. Prior to The Representation of the People Act 1918 just under 8 million men were registered to vote, these were based upon sex and property qualifications. The ordinary every day working man had no vote just like 100% women. The Representation Act gave around 8 million women the vote but also, and very rarely mentioned in comparison, around 5 million working men. In 1928 the remaining small pocket of women got the vote as well. When Parliament in the early 1900's passed the act that opened the doors for womens freedoms and lifting of restrictions upon them it was passed by a Parliament of men of which I understand was voted in favour by 7 to 1 by a parliament of 100% men. Conscription into wars is a state discrimination of the male gender only even in the the 1960's when gender equality rumblings were really starting. Even in modern times when a UK Minister for Women was appointed which allows debates in Parliament on womens issues including International Womens Day was granted by a Parliament still mostly dominated by men. It is interesting to note that the same Parliament cannot discuss legitimate mens issues even the younger version of International Mens Day and when challenged up roar happens from the female MP's within. Short term memory problems I think!

In the era of the Suffragettes, how many men, especially the older sons had to stay and maintain the family business or estate whether they wanted to or not whilst sisters either by marriage or choice could move away. Yes women were often tied to homes for care of family members but we are comparing “historic disadvantages”. At the same era of the Suffragettes, jobs men could go for were dependent upon position within society and access to education level and that included Universities of the time. Most men were confined to heavy and unregulated industry of work where death was a high risk. Women were given complete exemption from this, except education, and after 1918 work opportunities kept them away from such industries. In this modern era of Feminism and apparent equality the vast majority of working women still avoid jobs of danger and heavy industry, the sectors of employment that by nature of the job have the highest death toll.

At the time of the Suffragette movement, the birth of Feminism in the UK in the early 1900's, many men in business and politics led and dominated society. Many men didn't want to but it was an expected label and stereotype. Society had set expectations of both genders even if completely at odds to our current society thinkings and like today in certain areas, society of past took these gender roles serious and frowned upon any forms of merging. In that era, and still to this day if a man wanted to lose this society image he was/is ridiculed and yes by the women of that time much the same in this modern era. If a man showed equality towards women in that era he too was marginalised by those that controlled society. These are examples of some serious discriminations suffered by both genders but minor ones were still abound including towards men. A minor example was even in the 1960's UK fathers by social expectation had no involvement in the pre birth of their child and even at birth even if they wanted to could not be in attendance. The system would bar them and even after birth the system and society had strict expectant roles.

Then and now at times of disaster, all men are expected to give up their own lives in preference to women and children, an expectation still expected this day even under gender equality.

Modern day Feminism ignores many a true fact and statistic and has become obsessed with its single minded obsession all men are evil. I acknowledge not all women, are abbrasive, rude, generalise, discriminative and sexist in the pursuit of Feminism or have total disregard to the meaning of misandry, misogyny and true equality that the language and behaviour is just as misandry as some mens misogyny. Hard line Feminists have no respect to acknowledge others but expect men to do it towards them with out question and take what ever they say or believe without question. They want equality but equality has to include all otherwise there is no equality. They want total freedom of choice and opportunities, of course why not, but then expect men to be shackled to their labels, stereotyping etc. Then they say men cannot discuss. To discuss both need to listen to each other. This leads to quotes towards these women "I want equality but I also want special treatment".

They are just as bad as the remnant "dino-males". It does not do the Feminist cause any good. It simply winds up these "dino-males" and marginalises those that are not like these "dino-males" when recognition, respect is not acknowledged. You cannot discuss or debate with these hardline feminists as I have seen blogs here as an example. All they do is lash out with single minded generalisation, negativity. If a man stands up for himself then he is a misogynist. He must sit there and take all the 'crap' that these hard lined Feminists want to spout but their language is never misandry. It is never like the "dino-males" that they complain about and have just cause. A man is not allowed to point out the language and terminolgy they use is like some men do to women, the reply is either anti-feminist or misogyny. A man cannot point out that statistics prove that men suffer crime and violence from both men and women as these hard line feminists simply say that as male crime statistics are smaller than womens at the hands of women, they do not count. They say all women live in fear of men. From my experience of life the many women within it certainly do not live in fear and in sensible discussion on the subject acknowledge some mens concerns for their own safety from other violent men and at times from women. It's not just women who suffer! Many men embrace the modern era of equality, some men don't, some women don't either. The trouble is, this aggressive stance of one sided feminist rhetoric puts many of these accepting men on their guard and feel the need to reply. I certainly don't offer to help women I met out in public. I do family and friends but strangers certainly not as I have seen men being repremanded by women who see it as demeaning. They still expect old fashioned chivalry, that has also gone for me, I offer respect, will hold doors but for anyone but look at it as equality. Also many of these modern men who have never been like the "dino-males" of the past and the few of today do not see why they should be treated like the women of yester-year, after all true feminisim is for equality is it not! The percentage of men for whom modern day feminism applies to is a minority. Do not rant at the majority, embrace and discuss, you'll find the vast majority of men are with you. I'm not saying men have to lose manly appearance or drop interests that generally apply to most men. I'm not saying men must wear skirts to appear modern. I don't, read the main body of this site why I do and it is certainly not to make me a Feminist or support their one sided view of many feminists who openly say they need to eradicate masculinity. I am noting an increase in chatter from both men and women standing up for men and the modern day attitude towards them, so hard line feminists how do you say ALL women are harrased by men!

I heard this "discussion" well, to me it is a one sided Feminist rant by Laurie Penny on Womans Hour 28th May, 2014. The guy Laurie was talking about killed 3 men and 3 women. His hate video lambasted women but it also lambasted men who had success with women when he didn't. With his mentallity I can see why women shunned him. Men with this deranged mentallity are more than women but there are mentally deranged women as well, but even so it is a fraction of one percent of the population.

There will not be a resolve to this Misogyny/Misandry competition as long as this level of one sided Feminist rhetoric is about. We are back to the mentality of terrorist or freedomfighter stalemate. The joys of human intelligence. For myself, I have as much right to freedom of choice and equality as the next person claims. I have as much choice to walk about not in fear of men or even women who commit violent crime and don't tell me because women are fewer it doesn't count. It does count so long as there is only one woman out there committing crime I stand a chance of meeting that woman, it's just the same argument as these hard line feminists use. I do not see this "privileged white male" role within my life as no preferential treatment comes my way. I have met many an obstinate female, civilian, employee and boss who lies, bullies and speaks one sided as I do men in work places and life generally. I went self employed in the year 2000 as I hated the work politics and gender bashing and I have as much opportunity to become an MP, company director, successful millionaire etc, etc as the many ordinary male or female person on this planet - zero!

I fully stand by womens stance on rape, domestic violence, forced marriage, rights to abortion and any sexual harassment etc and education towards the perpetrators will help but I do not have a definitive answer. Speaking out and challenging men is one thing. I do not doubt that women suffer the lions share of these incidents, especially rape and domestic violence but men are victims too and this is rarely referred to. Many feminists imply that only women are subject to crime. Men are too. In the UK, 2013 statistics 3.2% men are subject to crime, 1.9% women. These statistics for the UK also say another statistic - 94.9%. I don't agree with any crime, or that there should be a victim but lets get it into perspective when we start to imply ALL or that crime is rampant or only one gender is specifically highlighted. Statistics are higher for women to men in rape, domestic violence and violent crime but overall men in the UK suffer by 1.3% more than women. Men are the victims of some women but also many men.  I as a man have a risk of crime mostly from a man just like women are but also from women. From many Feminist debates you think only women are the victims and men are the perpetrators. Men are victims too and at times women are from women. I am not trying to demean women as victims but in the age of equality and under the banner of true equality why not talk about both.

You hear homeless women, and just as much as you do men. Men have the higher rates of suicide in the UK, 8 in 10, men and that leaves me to ask why. Society is keen to highlight womens plights but not for men. You would think that in this modern era trafficking and slavery is only about women. Again they may have the lions share but men also have statisticis in these areas. There are rape centers for women, support centers for women but not for men yet some men are raped and I understand 1 in 6 men are the subject to Domestic Violence. In the UK in 2014 approximately 86,000 women reported rape officially, and 12,000 men also did. Now that some are acknowledging mens domestic violence and rape, men have to use womens support centers which is fine for true equality but lets have a factual discussion for both genders.

Campaigns are in the public arena about female genital mutilation yet nothing about male circumcision. Mens may at times may be needed for medical reasons but is primarily due to religion or family beliefs, culture.

Boys are groomed for sex gangs and from my reading in the news it appears as much as girls but the big issue is always about grooming of girls. Media & society at times in the past belittled women and these days if it happens there is huge public uproar, yet it appears OK and nothing is said when it is done towards men. If a man complains the reply usually contains man up, be a man, oh he's just a man, it doesn't matter, etc to name but some. Twitter and blogs are full of negative, sexual and demeaning comments towards men from women just like those that many women complain about. There are many more aspects of human life that can be raised here for both genders but at the end of the day the dirve for true equality must be applied to both genders and the drive must be inclusive of both genders.

In this modern era I fully understand the drive that many women call for with regards respect and equality but I start to question when it is only relevant to them. Equality exists when it applies to both and when comments are raised about men, the same comments should be applied to the women it also relates to.

Men have to always take the back seat with regards child access in separation situations and although some men are not bothered many are, yet many are denied or restricted hence the campaign by Fathers for Justice but plights endured by fathers, fathers that acknowledge their role are not highlighted only those that take their campaign in a reckless way. Both genders are capable of causing the break up of a relationship, including affairs, but it is always the man that takes the blame. I know many a woman in my life experiences who have been the cause of the break ups with affairs and if we are to use statistics, within my life experience I see more women be the instigator of affairs! Also why is it always the mans fault, it takes two to have an affair and if the woman was not voluntary involved then that is rape. Women can be bad parents too just as men are.

There is much hypocracy in society between and for both genders, more than what I have mentioned here as examples and applies to both genders. If we are to learn from the past, then lets do so and have true gender equality but I do think it is too much for human intelligence, it is driven with dominance, always has been.

I think this article entitled 'when it comes to depictions of men, glutter glossies and ivory tower feminists are on the same page' one of many on a website called InsideMan sums the situation up very well. Although it is specifically towards 'lads mags' and 'girl mags' the reasoning and discussion applies to many many aspects of human life and the gender battles.

Within my direct life experiences I have encountered groups of women, where they hold the majority in number, speak and behave towards myself and other males present in ways many women complain about men when they are in the majority. I have encountered on two occasions where women who hold power and influence be extremely ruthless in approach and favouritism and on both occasions flaunt procedure or use their positions to influence others  in that "they must be right" with the attitude "not happy, that's your problem". I did on one occasion approach senior management, a man, on what I considered sexual discrimination, but I was told 'man up', there is no sex discrimination here. In the early years of my work life not long after leaving school it was suggested that I left voluntarily as my female line manager does not want a man in her section, I was the only male, and they were not prepared to challenge a woman. I have been approached on several occasions by women when out and about with the view of, well the same as some men do towards women, and are quite 'hurt' when told I'm married, one even went as far as saying that makes you even more of a challenge. She got no where either.

From this site you will know that my work is garden maintenance/set up. My wife had her own career but would help when on work leave. Now she has recently retired and helps out so that we have more free time in the week. One of my clients gardens is a large walled garden on a popular walk route but it is very interesting to note that some women will talk to my wife about her garden and will stop asking questions when told actually it is was designed and set up by my husband or if I become involved. When setting up this garden from a square flat lawn it was said to me by a few women locally or who passed, you must have been advised by a woman or your wife. This is only the minority but I assume that is so often the case within life but then I hear so often, all men or the privileged white, Anglo Saxon, male who has all the opportunities that life offers.

The gender battle of the sexes is in my view very pathetic and childish. Both have problems, both are at fault including behaviour, language and attitude. Many women are quite capable of using words to demean men just as men are and as I was taught a wrong does not correct the first wrong. Follow by example, set the lead. Men have a reputation for naked photos of women, strip clubs, porn etc, well I'm not as too our friends, but some men do. Women do the same towards men but that is never raised. I understand the drive to stop the page 3 photo in The Sun newspaper and 'adult' magazines for men but there are 'adult' magazines for women, and many women are infactuated with the male body. I came across an interesting article in 2014 about the plight of prostitutes yet this article covered both men and women and apparently 50% of prostitutes are men!

At the end of the day, both sides are as bad as each other in this gender competing, both concentrating on their own specific objectives and not looking at a wider picture. They do not seem to understand that gender equality is about open access to all aspects of life, choice and expression for both genders provided no physical harm is done to others. They do not seem to understand it is about acknowledging and respecting the issues and problems that apply to both genders not a gender specifically. It is not the downgrading of masculinity or even as some see it as the upgrading of femininity. The strengths and weakness of both genders compliment one another when used correctly.

If a man announces he is Gay it's a big issue in the world. If two men are together that is too and labelled gay even if they are not. This never happens to women. It's like men in skirts, but it is never an issue for women in trousers or male style clothing. It is never an issue for women to exercise freedom of choice and individuality but it is for men. It is not an issue for women to break with society expected labels but it is for men.

In the UK men make up around 76% of suicides (2012) and is higher than road accidents, cancer and heart disease. I noted an article in mid 2014 that over the last 30 years women suicides have dropped some 50% yet mens are rising and yet when a well known male commits suicide questions are asked why but no real activity takes hold like it does for womens concerns. To me society is more concerned about womens and childrens troubles and has the attitude, its a man, he'll cope. I am not advocating that women should not have attention, rape & domestic violence centers, but men are human too and the sensible, modern man who embraces modern expectations is just as emotional and vulnerable as women but society and it's systems does not provide the same level of concern although some are starting too. Some men deserve ridicule, lambasting and negative comment but I don't think the overall lack of support compared to women, the generalisiation of "all men" by many on social media and the media or the expectation of men being traditional in appearance, expectations and behaviour then rebuked for being like that and not being a modern man embracing full modern equal status in all aspects helps.

I do not deny, like many men, that women have issues to be raised within society but these days you would think they are the only human beings, the only ones with feelings, emotions, problems, discrimination, sexism, inappropriate language towards them, misogyny never misandry or similar issues towards men. If a man changes from societies expected labels he is dysphoric, but never so for women. Society and Feminism puts women on a pedastol, a paragon of virtue, yes many deserve such a status, but so too many men.

I do not see any sensible resolve and time and time again throughout day to day life in the real world many examples of both genders indicate that this will simply get worse until such time as society actually starts to implement true equality not just say it. This will only be achieved when both genders work side by side respecting each other and breaking down all society labeling for both genders and standing side by side to those men and or women who persist in demeaning each other.

I have at times entered these gender bashing debates but replies are their one sided attitudes and 'all men' generalisation. To me they really do not want to discuss or acknowledge that both genders within real life are victims of varying degrees on differing aspects of society, that some men as well as some women are subject to others attitude and behaviour from both men and women and statistics quoted ignore relevant statistics for men.

If you want to discuss with me, by all means, contact via this site but it will have to be a discussion not a rant! Also respect for each other and if need be agree to disagree. We have a couple who are very good friends but on politics poles apart. Does it affect us, no, because with have the maturity and intellegence to respect and see the many positives the friendship brings. That's too much for the world at large as the entire previous human history shows including the current incumbants.

 

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